Hypertrophy Roundtable: Bigger Muscles Now with Brett Jones, Geoff Neupert, Mike Robertson, and Frankie Faires

Hypertrophy Roundtable: Bigger Muscles Now with Brett Jones, Geoff Neupert, Mike Robertson, and Frankie Faires

George Hackenschmidt

George Hackenschimdt Circa 1898 Source

I was cleaning the archives the other day and realized I gave this away as a gift, but never published it on my blog!  I figured many of the new readers would like to open the time capsule and see what is inside.

Note: the answers collected here were from Jan 2008, so almost 2.5 years ago!  Keep this in mind when you are reading since I know many of the authors have evolved and changed their mind, so this is a snapshot in time from 2.5 year ago.

Still, there is plenty of awesome information on muscle hypertrophy (how to get bigger muscles) below.  Enjoy!

So what do you get when you through 2 powerlifters (Brett Jones, Mike Robertson), an Olympic lifter (Geoff Neupert)  and a Martial Artist (Frankie Faires)  who are all also accomplished trainers into the mix and pepper them with questions about hypertrophy?

I don’t know, but we are about to find out so hold on and here we go on the wild hypertrophy ride.  (notes, my comments will be in bold under some of the names, so don’t BBQ them and send any comments to me)

1) Please introduce yourself and don’t be so darn modest this time!

Mike Robertson

My name is Mike Robertson and I’m a personal trainer/strength coach from the Indianapolis area.  I work with a variety of clients, from high school athletes to weekend warriors.    Mike Robertson the web at http://www.robertsontrainingsystems.com/

Brett Jones


Now Master Trainer Brett Jones

Brett Jones, Master RKC Instructor, CSCS, R-phase Z-Health certified
I have over 18 years of experience in both athletic training and strength and conditioning.  Brett Jone on the web at Applied Strength http://appliedstrength.blogspot.com/

A note, my answers will not be laden with scientific references and supplement recommendations.  Gaining mass is not a mystery. It only confuses those who refuse to squat and eat a lot.  Secret routines and supplement recommendations are the way people get money from people in my opinion.

There goes my new super training 10000 manual I was writing.  Drat!

Frankie Faires

Frankie Faires
Mike, first off, thanks for including me.  My name is Frankie Faires.  I am Levels 1-4 (RIST) certified Z Health trainer. In times past, I have been certified in NASM as well as RKC.  I focus on physique transformation, performance enhancement and pain relief.  I am a lifetime Martial Artist and currently train in BJJ and combatives.  Frankie can be found on the ole interwebz atPain Makes You Stupid – Purposeful Joint Mobility

Geoff Neupert

Geoff Neupert, CSCS, SrRKC, Z-Health Level 2, Owner Rapid Results Fitness and Integrated Fitness Solutions. 15 years experience including 3 1/2 years as a Division 1 Strength and Conditioning Coach. Competitive Olympic weightlifter.

Z HealthKettlebells, CSCS, a recovering NASM guy, this will be good!

2) What are the top 3 factors for optimal muscle hypertrophy and why?

Mike Robertson—
1 – Optimal posture (i.e. length/tension relationships).

2 – Optimal mobility/stability (i.e. the ability to assume the appropriate posture for any given exercise)\
The first two are going to be highly inter-related.  Quite simply if you don’t have proper alignment, you’re not going to be able to optimally stimulate a muscle.

Here’s the best example I can give here.  I’ve seen numerous kids who are too kyphotic (hunchback)  in the upper thoracic region, and they all complain that they can’t stimulate their pecs.  The fact of the matter is, their pecs are always shortened, and thus unable to produce optimal force.  Suboptimal force = Suboptimal hypertrophy!

You can look at it from either side of the coin.  From a strength/power standpoint, you’re unable to optimize these qualities because the pecs are too short.  From an injury prevention standpoint, your body “knows” that it’s out of alignment.  So your body knows it’s not in an optimal position to produce force, so it’s not going to allow you to keep progressing, because it doesn’t want to injure itself.
The second point is the ability to assume appropriate postures/body positions – basically, balancing mobility and stability.  If you’re out of alignment statically (when just standing around), there’s virtually no chance you’ll be able to assume the appropriate posture dynamically.

However, if you do have the appropriate mobility/stability to perform exercises through a full and complete ROM, you’re going to optimize ROM, muscular recruitment, and in the long run, the kind of weights you move.

3 – Heavy weights.
This one isn’t difficult at all.  Once you’ve optimized alignment, mobility, and stability, the fact of the matter is you need to get stronger.  You can play around with workout “density”, speed work, or a host of other factors, but nothing will get you bigger, faster, than getting more weight on the bar.

Sounds like all the Quasimodo’s out there are screwed for starters until they fix their posture.

Brett Jones—
1. Load + Volume (load – 75-85% of 1 rep maximum)
2. Nutrition
3. Recovery

Load + volume –stimulating growth is related to these two factors
Nutrition – overeating and ensuring enough calories is essential
Recovery – not allowing time for recovery will “prevent” growth

Caveat #1:
All of the above comments are made under the assumption that the individual trying to gain mass is also working on achieving and maintaining optimal movement skills.  Using Z Health or some other technique the person who sacrifices movement skill for mass is headed in the wrong direction.  Movement skill is the foundation for all training.

Brett is cornering the market on best and basics!  Hard to argue with that.

Frankie Faires–

You must require your body to become bigger.  The body must believe that getting bigger is the path of least resistance.  That being said –
Quality of nutrition, quality recovery and quality and quantity of movement (some movements under extra load) is the way you require it.

That is a lot of quality. JD Powers watch out!

Geoff Neupert—

I personally think it all depends on the individual, his fiber type biases, and his training age. Any of those parameters CAN work. Personally and professionally, I think you can’t fail with the age old 5×5 program–an oldie but goodie for sure. I think there are actually five, so I’ve taken the liberty of adding the other two. Hope you’re OK with that.
1. Neurological Efficiency
2. Tension
3. Volume
4. Caloric Intake
5. Recovery
1. Neurological Efficiency: Simply defined as all the muscles working that are supposed to be working in a given movement; free from compensations. I noticed this in myself after rehabilitating my injuries with Z-Health. Pre-Z-Health, I had too many compensation patterns and I couldn’t train long enough for an adaptive response without getting injured. Eventually, with compensations, you just run out of options for exercises–thus limiting your muscular growth.

2. Tension: Simply defined as the load on the bar.  Even more simply put, you must lift the appropriate loads. There are two ways to do this: Move moderate to heavy weights (65-75% 1RM for novices, and 75-85% for advanced) and light to moderate weights as fast as possible (Olympic lifts and Kettlebell variations).

3. Volume: Simply put, (sets * reps * load) = total tonnage per training session. Some coaches recommend between 25-50 reps per exercise for hypertrophy. Others, up to 100. Some, even lower.

4. Caloric Intake: You can’t grow if you won’t eat. Period. End of story. There’s no such thing as a “hardgainer” only someone who won’t eat as much as humanly possible and train as heavy as possible.

5. Recovery: If you can’t recover from your training, you won’t grow. Powerlifters have a saying: “Don’t run if you can walk. Don’t walk if you can stand. Don’t stand if you can sit. Don’t sit if you can lie down.” You get the picture. Make sure you also get 8-10 hours of sleep per night and a nap during the day.

Those are all good ones, so 5 is allowed.

 

3) Related to the top 3 factors for optimal muscle hypertrophy, what are the limiting factors for muscle hypertrophy?

Mike Robertson—

See my above answers

Brett Jones–

Not training with enough load and not eating enough

My Spidy sense is on to a trend here.
Frankie Faires—

Health.  The movement you load must be good for you.  The solids and liquids you ingest must be good for you.  Even the bed you sleep on must be good for you.  Anything that deleteriously affects your health is going to slow down if not halt hypertrophy. (Note, We’ll get into how to find out what’s good for you in a little bit.)

So I must get healthier to get bigger?  Shhh don’t tell any of those big professional body builders.  If that is one of you, please note that I did not make any such comment.

Geoff Neupert—

Take out one of the five from the previous question.

4) Can you gain lean body mass (LBM) at the same time as losing fat?  If not, what is an acceptable ratio of LBM to fat gain?

Mike Robertson—

Sure, but it all depends on your starting point!

If I get someone who’s sitting at 30% body fat and has never worked out a day in their life, then I can absolutely increase their lean body mass while simultaneously losing fat.

However, if you give me an advanced trainee who has been training for years, has a dialed in diet, etc., then it’s going to much tougher to do so.  I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s highly dependent upon what that trainee is willing to do to achieve those results.  Your margin of error is MUCH smaller in this demographic than the previous one.

Excellent point Mike
Brett Jones—

Rates of LBM gain and fat loss or gain are related to a wide variety of individual factors and dietary factors – exact answers here are speculative at best.

Frankie Faires—

I have only anecdotal evidence – but on a month to month basis – I have seen clients gain lean mass and lose fat at the same time over and over again.
I have had long time clients that have put on muscle and lost fat from a previous measurement – this correlated with a new (novel) loaded movement program.

Frankie, so you feel that adding new and novel movements is needed then?  How would you determine when and what?

Hold your horses.  We’ll get into testing in just a bit.

Once again, Mike, ROM testing from the end of the article.

Geoff Neupert—

Yes, but it is challenging and it’s based on lifestyle issues.

5) What rest periods would you recommend and why?

Mike Robertson—

Rest periods are largely dependent upon the end goal of my training.  If I’m looking at it from a “metabolic hypertrophy” perspective, I’m going to keep rest relatively low, somewhere between 60-120 seconds.  This is also dependent upon the training age of the athlete at hand.  If someone’s a relative newbie, they won’t incur the same level of stress, and therefore won’t need as much recovery time.  Someone who has been at this quite some time and can incur a lot of stress in one set, so they’ll need more rest in between sets to recover.

On the other hand if I’m using lower rep sets and striving for “neural hypertrophy,” I’m going to draw out those rest periods and allow the nervous system time to recover.  For big exercises like squats and deads, I may rest anywhere from 2-5 minutes.

It’s probably annoying to hear me say “It depends” all the time, but it really does.  It depends on the goal of your training phase, the training age of the athlete, your sets/reps, recovery, etc.

My notes, I think of “neural” as strength via only the nervous system (learning to lift heavier) and  “metabolic” hypertrophy as more structural – increasing the amount (muscle size) of the actual fibers doing the work.

Brett Jones

I prefer 3-5 minutes rest between sets – this ensures focus and form.  Shorter rest periods (1-2 minutes) can be used as long as the load can remain heavy enough and form stays perfect.

Frankie Faires—

I don’t stray from the general rest periods of 30-120s.  That being said, a trainee must pick the appropriate movement, speed, resistance and rep range to utilize this rest period.

Geoff Neupert—

Depends–anywhere from 1 minute to 5 minutes. Novices should use a longer rest period to focus on technique. More advanced trainees with “time under the bar” can use shorter rest periods and still keep good technique. The longer rest periods allow for heavier loads and therefore more tension. Conversely, shorter rest periods can still stimulate growth, especially when using “ballistic” type exercises, i.e.: KB exercises and Olympic lifts and variations.

6) How important is overall volume for hypertrophy?

Mike Robertson—

I think overall volume is important to a degree, but I think it’s overused as well.

When compared to bodybuilders, powerlifters typically use much less volume.  Yet when you put them side-by-side, the powerlifter (while they may look “stocky” or less aesthetically balanced), generally has very similar levels of muscular development.

In that same breath, Olympic lifters are much the same as well.  I think power and Olympic lifters have a better understanding of what “quality” work really means.  Rather than taking an entire day to work on “arms”, they are incorporating plenty of “arm” work in their programming via heavy chins, rows, pulls, etc.

I think the most important concept here is understanding that “more” volume isn’t necessary, unless it’s “quality” volume.  If you’re just filling up your routine with junk sets, then you’re probably not getting a whole hell of a lot out of them.

Gotta love that instant feedback in Olympic lifting—you either made it or not!  What do you say Mr. Olympic lifter?

Geoff Neupert–
Very. The best way to get stronger without muscular growth is a very low volume routine. Therefore, the opposite holds true up to a point.

Brett Jones–

You must accumulate volume for growth – we know that we can limit growth by following a low volume routine.

Frankie Faires—

After quality of movement, volume, or quantity is key.  Density is also important and all of these assumes your are using perfect form.

7) What would be a good template for a typical “weekend warrior” athlete in his mid 30s to early 40s.

Mike Robertson—

Again, my “powerlifter” side may be coming out here, but I think a weekend warrior is going to do best with one of two templates:
–          A three day, total-body routine
–          A four day, split body routine (two lower body days, two upper body days)

The primary focus with people in their 30’s and 40’s is recovery capacity.  Can they recover from four workouts in a week?  That’s tough to say.  Remember that your body doesn’t interpret stress differently; whether it’s training stress, job stress, spousal stress, kid stress, or anything else, stress is stress!  The thing most trainees don’t understand is that training stress is the factor they have the most control over.

If someone in their 30’s or 40’s is serious about getting bigger and stronger, they absolutely must understand that if they aren’t recovering from workouts, they aren’t growing.  If stress is cranked up, gear your workouts back and allow your body time to recuperate.  Get through the obstacles you have in your life, then go back to the gym with a vengeance.

Excellent points Mike!  Training stress is under your direct control is a great way to put it.
Brett Jones—

Squat – Bench  (Monday and Friday) – Deadlift – Chin-up (Wednesday)
5×5
2-3 days a week

Ah, looks like the old Bill Starr program me thinks.
Frankie Faires—

I like upper body pushing or pulling in a vertical position.  Juan Carlos Santana has some fancy name for this – I don’t recall it.
I think being in Stance Lunges ala the I-Phase lunges from Z-Health with rotation is often appropriate. (My note, this is a lunge done in various degrees, such as your leg straight in front, out in front at 45 degrees, to the side at 90 degrees, then behind you and then switch feet).
I think rotation and asymmetrical stances are underutilized in all resistance training.
It is hard to beat squats and deadlifts for full body but especially lower body development.
The caveat for all of these movements is that they must test well for the individual…and yes, how to test is coming up. (Frankie is such a tease!)

Frankie, you mentioned rotation and asymmetrical stances are not used enough—why is that?
I can only speculate.  I think it came from the predominant use of barbells which require symmetrical stances and bilateral synchronous movement.

Geoff Neupert—

The old “A-B” split performed 2-3 times per week. An example:

A. Squat, Parallel Dips, Barbell Rows 3-5 x 3-5
B. Deadlift, Bench Press, Chins 4-6 x 4-6

Classic!

8 ) Would it change much for other populations?

Mike Robertson—

Keeping it brutally simple:

–          Kids can handle more stress (because their overall “life” stress is lower), and their recovery capacities are greater
–          The older you get, the slower your recovery capacities are.  Take this into account.  Perform less volume.  Take more time in between workouts.  Do fewer “heavy” workout per week.  Basically, get better at balancing training and recovery.

Brett Jones—

Individual factors always come into play but from a general blueprint – no.

Frankie Faires—

If by other pops, you mean those more physically disadvantaged, then probably only in degree and depth of movement.  Everyone needs to squat and lunge but not to the same depth, direction and load.

Geoff Neupert–

No and Yes. The more recovery time one has, the greater the loading possibilities/potential. But the general population would do well to train 3 days and recover 4 based on lifestyle factors. That being said, younger athletes–15-21 years of age can generally stand more frequent exposures to loading for hypertrophy.

9) What is a cool tip for muscle hypertrophy that you have found recently?

Mike Robertson—
I hate “cool tips”, so here’s my smart-ass remark:

I found that the more weight I can put on the bar, the bigger I get.  Funny, eh?

Seriously, I think too many people want cool tips and tricks, versus the understanding that you just need to work your ass off.  A smart plan, coupled with consistency and dedication in the gym will help you achieve almost any goal, in or out of the gym.

I knew my “cool tip” question would get a rise from someone!

Brett Jones–
Squat – heavy!

Frankie Faires—
Not a tip so much as an insight.
I have noticed the most formidable MA’s and strength athletes are those with bigger joints.
I am a believer in joint hypertrophy training.

Whooa, hold on there Tex,  joint hypertrophy?  Why focus on the joints, I want bigger muscles?

This one is a little complicated.  I think there is sufficient theory to back up the testing of this practice.  I believe the limited movements we use to train our muscles bring about limited joint hypertrophy.  I believe if we specifically target the joints for hypertrophy, we’ll be able to get even more muscular hypertrophy.

Geoff Neupert—
Nothing recent. Just good old-fashioned hard work with basic exercises such as the following: Squat, Deadlift, Parallel Dips, Chins/Pull-ups, Military Press, Rows, Bench Press, etc.

10) How important is nutrition?

Brett Jones—
Very – but not from a perfect eating perspective.  People just will not eat enough and put too much reliance on supplements.  6 meals a day + additional protein shakes + waking up at 3 am to have another shake can be the right amount of eating and most people will not do this and consider extra bananas to be “eating like a maniac” – having an extra pizza between meals is eating like maniac – fruit doesn’t count!

You’re killing me here Brett.  So your saying my eating bananas and dumbbell flys routine won’t get me hyoooge?

Frankie Faires—
Extremely important.  We literally are what we eat (and how we eat and when we eat and even why we eat).  Of course, we also are what and how we move.

I agree, even though that it getting a little Paul Chek na na woo woo for me.

Geoff Neupert–
Very. You must eat if you want to grow. And you must eat carbohydrates too. Many this day and age are “carb-o-phobic.” Don’t be.

Got it.  Bring on the squats, carbs and pizzas!

11) Do reps need to be taken to “failure”?

Mike Robertson—
No.  This is another one of those myths that’s been around forever, but I’ll use myself as an example here.

When I was heavily involved in powerlifting, I hated missing reps.  In fact, over a one-year period, I’d rarely miss more then four or five reps TOTAL!  Now that doesn’t mean that you don’t push yourself, because that’s not the case at all.  You just have to be smart about picking your loads, and confident in the fact that you’re ready to move them.

I’ve also discussed this with Jim Wendler of Elite Fitness, and he agrees whole-heartedly.  He hated missing reps as well.  Another example would be Pocket Hercules, the world famous Olympic lifter.  He’d rarely, if ever, miss reps.

I think missing reps not only puts you in danger of getting hurt, but affects your confidence and drastically steeps your recovery curve.  I just don’t think the cost:benefit ratio is there to be missing reps.

Good point!  Success breeds more success and Wendler is well, Wendler.

Brett Jones—
No – as a recovered HIT Jedi who was convinced of going to failure and being a “hard-gainer”, I have put on 20 unwanted pounds by increasing my squat and not training to failure.

Can I take some of those unwanted pounds since you don’t want them?  Wow, I never knew you had that HIT skeleton in your closet Brett!  Investigative journalism at its best right here folks!

Frankie Faires—
Believe it or not, I am a believer in periodic failure – maybe once (one rep in one set of a movement) every 3-12 weeks.
Otherwise, cut your reps before you build up excess tension and/or change your breathing patterns.

How do you define excess tension and what type of breathing do you use?

I would define as tension in places where it wouldn’t be if you were performing that same movement relaxed.  Your glutes shouldn’t be hypertonic if you are doing a biceps curl.  The type of breathing I use is exhale under lung field compression and in most cases exhale under exertion.

Geoff Neupert—
No. I have actually seen instances where training to failure has the exact opposite effect–it rips the muscle off you.

Yikes, we don’t want that unless we opt to be a cardio bunny.

12) What is one thing for optimal hypertrophy that would be the biggest bang for the buck, but most people are not doing?

Mike Robertson—
I discussed this at length above, so I won’t drone on about this.  I feel if more people would improve their alignment, mobility and stability, they’d be putting themselves in a better position to grow, regardless of what their programming looked like.  Essentially, any program would be “better” because they are using the appropriate muscles for the task at hand.

Brett Jones
Squat – Heavy! Eat a lot.

Fact #1:
When you can squat 405 (or more) for 5 sets of 5 reps you will not be crying about being a “hard gainer”.  Nothing is as effective as squats for gaining mass – period.
People spend too much time worrying over the perfect program and supplement protocol and not enough time under the bar.

Fact #2:
In general terms there are two known methods for gaining size – powerlifting and bodybuilding.  There are no mysteries or secret programs – period.
The fact is that gaining mass is simple – but not easy!

Wise words by both and very similar.  Looks like my bananas and DB flys programmed is doomed before it even starts.

Frankie Faires—

OK, now it is time to talk about testing – testing – testing.

OK, I will be the “woo-woo” guy.
If something (food, movement) is good for you, doesn’t it make sense that it would make your body stronger and more flexible?
It does!  One way to instantly measure movement efficacy it is to test your ROM.
For lower body movements, test arm flexion (reach directly upwards and backwards)  For upper body movements, test using a soft locked knee toe touch.

If after performing the movement, your ROM did not increase, that movement is not good for you and probably will slow down hypertrophic gains.

Whooo.   Hold on there Mr Woo Woo with your can of worms.   Why would I test a lower body motion after upper body work?  Do I have to do this after every set?  Why would this slow down hypertrophic gains if my range of motion decreases?  Last time I checked most powerlifters are trying to decrease their range of motion and they are some big dudes.    What gives?

What we are testing isn’t exactly ROM.  ROM is the method but it isn’t the measure.  We are measuring how overall relaxed you are (which is a function of how relaxed your nervous system will be).  Doing KB swings will directly increase your hamstring flexibility.   For it to be a good test, you need to test another place that wasn’t targeted in the exercise.

Losing ROM is ultimately bad for you.  It may not be bad right away but it will be.  If you make health your first priority, I predict fewer plateaus and an incredibly low chance of injury…which leaves you more time to be bigger.

My notes, I have been testing my ROM after exercises for quite some time now and it works VERY well when done precisely.

Geoff Neupert—
There isn’t “one” thing–there’s “two:” Performing the “hard” exercises like squats and deadlifts and eating. I went from 165lbs to 252lbs in 4 years in college following this exact “blueprint.”

Hard to argue with those results!

So there you have it folks.  We even made it through with no bloodshed other than a few attempt to bench press Frankie who then offered to karate chop them if they tried and peace was restored.

Now it is your turn to put this knowledge into practice.  Knowledge is not key, APPLIED knowledge is key go out and start applying!

Special thanks to Brett Jones, Mike Robertson, Geoff Neupert and Frankie Faires for their time on this.  Much much appreciate!

Any questions on any of this, feel free to drop me a line at michaelTnelson@yahoo.com
Check out my website at http://www.ExtremeHumanPerformance.com

Note: if you missed the top note, this was originally conducted in January of 2008 and was a bonus gift, but I am releasing it to all of you now!

COMMENTS

What do you all think?  Thoughts?  Do you like this type of format?  Bring ’em on!

Rock on

Mike T Nelson

PS

Flash forward to 2.5 years after Frankie talked about testing for more muscle and strength, and you can get it on the Grip n Rip DVD set HERE

 

 

 

Sign up to my RSS feed and any time I update a post, you will know about it instantly!

0 0

You can also help out by hitting this  

 

 

 

 

So what do you get when you through 2 powerlifters (Brett Jones, Mike Robertson), an Olympic lifter (Geoff Neupert)  and a Martial Artist (Frankie Faires)  who are all also accomplished trainers into the mix and pepper them with questions about hypertrophy?  I don’t know, but we are about to find out so hold on and here we go on the wild hypertrophy ride.  (notes, my comments will be in bold under some of the names, so don’t BBQ them and send any comments to me, Mike T Nelson at michaelTnelson@yahoo.com)

1) Please introduce yourself and don’t be so darn modest this time!

Mike Robertson—

My name is Mike Robertson and I’m a personal trainer/strength coach from the Indianapolis area.  I work with a variety of clients, from high school athletes to weekend warriors.

Brett Jones–

Brett Jones, Master RKC Instructor, CSCS, R-phase Z-Health certified

I have over 18 years of experience in both athletic training and strength and conditioning

A note, my answers will not be laden with scientific references and supplement recommendations.  Gaining mass is not a mystery. It only confuses those who refuse to squat and eat a lot.  Secret routines and supplement recommendations are the way people get money from people in my opinion.

There goes my new super training 10000 manual I was writing.  Drat!

Frankie Faires—

Mike, first off, thanks for including me.  My name is Frankie Faires.  I am Levels 1-4 (RIST) certified Z Health trainer. In times past, I have been certified in NASM as well as RKC.  I focus on physique transformation, performance enhancement and pain relief.  I am a lifetime Martial Artist and currently train in BJJ and combatives.

Geoff Neupert

Geoff Neupert, CSCS, SrRKC, Z-Health Level 2, Owner Rapid Results Fitness and Integrated Fitness Solutions. 15 years experience including 3 1/2 years as a Division 1 Strength and Conditioning Coach. Competitive Olympic weightlifter.

Z Health, Kettlebells, CSCS, a recovering NASM guy, this will be good!

2) What are the top 3 factors for optimal muscle hypertrophy and why?

Mike Robertson—

1 – Optimal posture (i.e. length/tension relationships).

2 – Optimal mobility/stability (i.e. the ability to assume the appropriate posture for any given exercise)\

The first two are going to be highly inter-related.  Quite simply if you don’t have proper alignment, you’re not going to be able to optimally stimulate a muscle.

Here’s the best example I can give here.  I’ve seen numerous kids who are too kyphotic (hunchback)  in the upper thoracic region, and they all complain that they can’t stimulate their pecs.  The fact of the matter is, their pecs are always shortened, and thus unable to produce optimal force.  Suboptimal force = Suboptimal hypertrophy!

You can look at it from either side of the coin.  From a strength/power standpoint, you’re unable to optimize these qualities because the pecs are too short.  From an injury prevention standpoint, your body “knows” that it’s out of alignment.  So your body knows it’s not in an optimal position to produce force, so it’s not going to allow you to keep progressing, because it doesn’t want to injure itself.

The second point is the ability to assume appropriate postures/body positions – basically, balancing mobility and stability.  If you’re out of alignment statically (when just standing around), there’s virtually no chance you’ll be able to assume the appropriate posture dynamically.

However, if you do have the appropriate mobility/stability to perform exercises through a full and complete ROM, you’re going to optimize ROM, muscular recruitment, and in the long run, the kind of weights you move.

3 – Heavy weights.

This one isn’t difficult at all.  Once you’ve optimized alignment, mobility, and stability, the fact of the matter is you need to get stronger.  You can play around with workout “density”, speed work, or a host of other factors, but nothing will get you bigger, faster, than getting more weight on the bar.

Sounds like all the Quasimodo’s out there are screwed for starters until they fix their posture.

 

Brett Jones—

1. Load + Volume (load – 75-85% of 1 rep maximum)

2. Nutrition

3. Recovery

Load + volume –stimulating growth is related to these two factors

Nutrition – overeating and ensuring enough calories is essential

Recovery – not allowing time for recovery will “prevent” growth

Caveat #1:

All of the above comments are made under the assumption that the individual trying to gain mass is also working on achieving and maintaining optimal movement skills.  Using Z Health or some other technique the person who sacrifices movement skill for mass is headed in the wrong direction.  Movement skill is the foundation for all training.

Brett is cornering the market on best and basics!  Hard to argue with that.

Frankie Faires—

You must require your body to become bigger.  The body must believe that getting bigger is the path of least resistance.  That being said –

Quality of nutrition, quality recovery and quality and quantity of movement (some movements under extra load) is the way you require it.

That is a lot of quality. JD Powers watch out!

Geoff Neupert—

I personally think it all depends on the individual, his fiber type biases, and his training age. Any of those parameters CAN work. Personally and professionally, I think you can’t fail with the age old 5×5 program–an oldie but goodie for sure. I think there are actually five, so I’ve taken the liberty of adding the other two. Hope you’re OK with that.

1. Neurological Efficiency

2. Tension

3. Volume

4. Caloric Intake

5. Recovery

1. Neurological Efficiency: Simply defined as all the muscles working that are supposed to be working in a given movement; free from compensations. I noticed this in myself after rehabilitating my injuries with Z-Health. Pre-Z-Health, I had too many compensation patterns and I couldn’t train long enough for an adaptive response without getting injured. Eventually, with compensations, you just run out of options for exercises–thus limiting your muscular growth.

2. Tension: Simply defined as the load on the bar.  Even more simply put, you must lift the appropriate loads. There are two ways to do this: Move moderate to heavy weights (65-75% 1RM for novices, and 75-85% for advanced) and light to moderate weights as fast as possible (Olympic lifts and Kettlebell variations).

3. Volume: Simply put, (sets * reps * load) = total tonnage per training session. Some coaches recommend between 25-50 reps per exercise for hypertrophy. Others, up to 100. Some, even lower.

4. Caloric Intake: You can’t grow if you won’t eat. Period. End of story. There’s no such thing as a “hardgainer” only someone who won’t eat as much as humanly possible and train as heavy as possible.

5. Recovery: If you can’t recover from your training, you won’t grow. Powerlifters have a saying: “Don’t run if you can walk. Don’t walk if you can stand. Don’t stand if you can sit. Don’t sit if you can lie down.” You get the picture. Make sure you also get 8-10 hours of sleep per night and a nap during the day.

Those are all good ones, so 5 is allowed.

3) Related to the top 3 factors for optimal muscle hypertrophy, what are the limiting factors for muscle hypertrophy?

Mike Robertson—

See my above answers

Brett Jones–

Not training with enough load and not eating enough

My Spidy sense is on to a trend here.

 

Frankie Faires—

Health.  The movement you load must be good for you.  The solids and liquids you ingest must be good for you.  Even the bed you sleep on must be good for you.  Anything that deleteriously affects your health is going to slow down if not halt hypertrophy.  (Note, We’ll get into how to find out what’s good for you in a little bit.)

So I must get healthier to get bigger?  Shhh don’t tell any of those big professional body builders.  If that is one of you, please note that I did not make any such comment.

Geoff Neupert—

Take out one of the five from the previous question.

4) Can you gain lean body mass (LBM) at the same time as losing fat?  If not, what is an acceptable ratio of LBM to fat gain?

Mike Robertson—

Sure, but it all depends on your starting point!

 

If I get someone who’s sitting at 30% body fat and has never worked out a day in their life, then I can absolutely increase their lean body mass while simultaneously losing fat.

However, if you give me an advanced trainee who has been training for years, has a dialed in diet, etc., then it’s going to much tougher to do so.  I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s highly dependent upon what that trainee is willing to do to achieve those results.  Your margin of error is MUCH smaller in this demographic than the previous one.

Excellent point Mike

Brett Jones—

Rates of LBM gain and fat loss or gain are related to a wide variety of individual factors and dietary factors – exact answers here are speculative at best.

Frankie Faires—

I have only anecdotal evidence – but on a month to month basis – I have seen clients gain lean mass and lose fat at the same time over and over again.

I have had long time clients that have put on muscle and lost fat from a previous measurement – this correlated with a new (novel) loaded movement program.

Frankie, so you feel that adding new and novel movements is needed then?  How would you determine when and what?

Hold your horses.  We’ll get into testing in just a bit.

Once again, Mike, ROM testing from the end of the article.

Geoff Neupert—

Yes, but it is challenging and it’s based on lifestyle issues.

5) What rest periods would you recommend and why?

Mike Robertson—

Rest periods are largely dependent upon the end goal of my training.  If I’m looking at it from a “metabolic hypertrophy” perspective, I’m going to keep rest relatively low, somewhere between 60-120 seconds.  This is also dependent upon the training age of the athlete at hand.  If someone’s a relative newbie, they won’t incur the same level of stress, and therefore won’t need as much recovery time.  Someone who has been at this quite some time and can incur a lot of stress in one set, so they’ll need more rest in between sets to recover.

On the other hand if I’m using lower rep sets and striving for “neural hypertrophy,” I’m going to draw out those rest periods and allow the nervous system time to recover.  For big exercises like squats and deads, I may rest anywhere from 2-5 minutes.

It’s probably annoying to hear me say “It depends” all the time, but it really does.  It depends on the goal of your training phase, the training age of the athlete, your sets/reps, recovery, etc.

My notes, I think of “neural” as strength via only the nervous system (learning to lift heavier) and  “metabolic” hypertrophy as more structural – increasing the amount (muscle size) of the actual fibers doing the work.

Brett Jones

I prefer 3-5 minutes rest between sets – this ensures focus and form.  Shorter rest periods (1-2 minutes) can be used as long as the load can remain heavy enough and form stays perfect.

Frankie Faires—

I don’t stray from the general rest periods of 30-120s.  That being said, a trainee must pick the appropriate movement, speed, resistance and rep range to utilize this rest period.

Geoff Neupert—

Depends–anywhere from 1 minute to 5 minutes. Novices should use a longer rest period to focus on technique. More advanced trainees with “time under the bar” can use shorter rest periods and still keep good technique. The longer rest periods allow for heavier loads and therefore more tension. Conversely, shorter rest periods can still stimulate growth, especially when using “ballistic” type exercises, i.e.: KB exercises and Olympic lifts and variations.

6) How important is overall volume for hypertrophy?

Mike Robertson—

I think overall volume is important to a degree, but I think it’s overused as well.

When compared to bodybuilders, powerlifters typically use much less volume.  Yet when you put them side-by-side, the powerlifter (while they may look “stocky” or less aesthetically balanced), generally has very similar levels of muscular development.

In that same breath, Olympic lifters are much the same as well.  I think power and Olympic lifters have a better understanding of what “quality” work really means.  Rather than taking an entire day to work on “arms”, they are incorporating plenty of “arm” work in their programming via heavy chins, rows, pulls, etc.

I think the most important concept here is understanding that “more” volume isn’t necessary, unless it’s “quality” volume.  If you’re just filling up your routine with junk sets, then you’re probably not getting a whole hell of a lot out of them.

Gotta love that instant feedback in Olympic lifting—you either made it or not!  What do you say Mr. Olympic lifter?

Geoff Neupert–

Very. The best way to get stronger without muscular growth is a very low volume routine. Therefore, the opposite holds true up to a point.

Brett Jones–

You must accumulate volume for growth – we know that we can limit growth by following a low volume routine.

Frankie Faires—

After quality of movement, volume, or quantity is key.  Density is also important and all of these assumes your are using perfect form.

7) What would be a good template for a typical “weekend warrior” athlete in his mid 30s to early 40s.

Mike Robertson—

Again, my “powerlifter” side may be coming out here, but I think a weekend warrior is going to do best with one of two templates:

–          A three day, total-body routine

–          A four day, split body routine (two lower body days, two upper body days)

The primary focus with people in their 30’s and 40’s is recovery capacity.  Can they recover from four workouts in a week?  That’s tough to say.  Remember that your body doesn’t interpret stress differently; whether it’s training stress, job stress, spousal stress, kid stress, or anything else, stress is stress!  The thing most trainees don’t understand is that training stress is the factor they have the most control over.

If someone in their 30’s or 40’s is serious about getting bigger and stronger, they absolutely must understand that if they aren’t recovering from workouts, they aren’t growing.  If stress is cranked up, gear your workouts back and allow your body time to recuperate.  Get through the obstacles you have in your life, then go back to the gym with a vengeance.

Excellent points Mike!  Training stress is under your direct control is a great way to put it.

Brett Jones—

Squat – Bench  (Monday and Friday) – Deadlift – Chin-up (Wednesday)

5×5

2-3 days a week

Ah, looks like the old Bill Starr program me thinks.

Frankie Faires—

I like upper body pushing or pulling in a vertical position.  Juan Carlos Santana has some fancy name for this – I don’t recall it.

I think being in Stance Lunges ala the I-Phase lunges from Z-Health with rotation is often appropriate.(My note, this is a lunge done in various degrees, such as your leg straight in front, out in front at 45 degrees, to the side at 90 degrees, then behind you and then switch feet).

I think rotation and asymmetrical stances are underutilized in all resistance training.

It is hard to beat squats and deadlifts for full body but especially lower body development.

The caveat for all of these movements is that they must test well for the individual…and yes, how to test is coming up.  (Frankie is such a tease!)

Frankie, you mentioned rotation and asymmetrical stances are not used enough—why is that?

I can only speculate.  I think it came from the predominant use of barbells which require symmetrical stances and bilateral synchronous movement.

Geoff Neupert—

The old “A-B” split performed 2-3 times per week. An example:

A. Squat, Parallel Dips, Barbell Rows 3-5 x 3-5

B. Deadlift, Bench Press, Chins 4-6 x 4-6

Classic!

8) Would it change much for other populations?

Mike Robertson—

Keeping it brutally simple:

–          Kids can handle more stress (because their overall “life” stress is lower), and their recovery capacities are greater

–          The older you get, the slower your recovery capacities are.  Take this into account.  Perform less volume.  Take more time in between workouts.  Do fewer “heavy” workout per week.  Basically, get better at balancing training and recovery.

Brett Jones—

Individual factors always come into play but from a general blueprint – no.

Frankie Faires—

If by other pops, you mean those more physically disadvantaged, then probably only in degree and depth of movement.  Everyone needs to squat and lunge but not to the same depth, direction and load.

Geoff Neupert–

No and Yes. The more recovery time one has, the greater the loading possibilities/potential. But the general population would do well to train 3 days and recover 4 based on lifestyle factors. That being said, younger athletes–15-21 years of age can generally stand more frequent exposures to loading for hypertrophy.

9) What is a cool tip for muscle hypertrophy that you have found recently?

Mike Robertson—

I hate “cool tips”, so here’s my smart-ass remark:

I found that the more weight I can put on the bar, the bigger I get.  Funny, eh?

Seriously, I think too many people want cool tips and tricks, versus the understanding that you just need to work your ass off.  A smart plan, coupled with consistency and dedication in the gym will help you achieve almost any goal, in or out of the gym.

I knew my “cool tip” question would get a rise from someone!

Brett Jones–

Squat – heavy!

Frankie Faires—

Not a tip so much as an insight.

I have noticed the most formidable MA’s and strength athletes are those with bigger joints.

I am a believer in joint hypertrophy training.

Whooa, hold on there Tex,  joint hypertrophy?  Why focus on the joints, I want bigger muscles?

This one is a little complicated.  I think there is sufficient theory to back up the testing of this practice.  I believe the limited movements we use to train our muscles bring about limited joint hypertrophy.  I believe if we specifically target the joints for hypertrophy, we’ll be able to get even more muscular hypertrophy.

Geoff Neupert—

Nothing recent. Just good old-fashioned hard work with basic exercises such as the following: Squat, Deadlift, Parallel Dips, Chins/Pull-ups, Military Press, Rows, Bench Press, etc.

10) How important is nutrition?

Brett Jones—

Very – but not from a perfect eating perspective.  People just will not eat enough and put too much reliance on supplements.  6 meals a day + additional protein shakes + waking up at 3 am to have another shake can be the right amount of eating and most people will not do this and consider extra bananas to be “eating like a maniac” – having an extra pizza between meals is eating like maniac – fruit doesn’t count!

You’re killing me here Brett.  So your saying my eating bananas and dumbbell flys routine won’t get me hyoooge?

Frankie Faires—

Extremely important.  We literally are what we eat (and how we eat and when we eat and even why we eat).  Of course, we also are what and how we move.

I agree, even though that it getting a little Paul Chek na na woo woo for me.

Geoff Neupert–

Very. You must eat if you want to grow. And you must eat carbohydrates too. Many this day and age are “carb-o-phobic.” Don’t be.

Got it.  Bring on the squats, carbs and pizzas!

11) Do reps need to be taken to “failure”?

Mike Robertson—

No.  This is another one of those myths that’s been around forever, but I’ll use myself as an example here.

When I was heavily involved in powerlifting, I hated missing reps.  In fact, over a one-year period, I’d rarely miss more then four or five reps TOTAL!  Now that doesn’t mean that you don’t push yourself, because that’s not the case at all.  You just have to be smart about picking your loads, and confident in the fact that you’re ready to move them.

I’ve also discussed this with Jim Wendler of Elite Fitness, and he agrees whole-heartedly.  He hated missing reps as well.  Another example would be Pocket Hercules, the world famous Olympic lifter.  He’d rarely, if ever, miss reps.

I think missing reps not only puts you in danger of getting hurt, but affects your confidence and drastically steeps your recovery curve.  I just don’t think the cost:benefit ratio is there to be missing reps.

Good point!  Success breeds more success and Wendler is well, Wendler.

Brett Jones—

No – as a recovered HIT Jedi who was convinced of going to failure and being a “hard-gainer”, I have put on 20 unwanted pounds by increasing my squat and not training to failure.

Can I take some of those unwanted pounds since you don’t want them?  Wow, I never knew you had that HIT skeleton in your closet Brett!  Investigative journalism at its best right here.

Frankie Faires—

Believe it or not, I am a believer in periodic failure – maybe once (one rep in one set of a movement) every 3-12 weeks.

Otherwise, cut your reps before you build up excess tension and/or change your breathing patterns.

How do you define excess tension and what type of breathing do you use?

I would define as tension in places where it wouldn’t be if you were performing that same movement relaxed.  Your glutes shouldn’t be hypertonic if you are doing a biceps curl.  The type of breathing I use is exhale under lung field compression and in most cases exhale under exertion.

Geoff Neupert—

No. I have actually seen instances where training to failure has the exact opposite effect–it rips the muscle off you.

Yikes, we don’t want that unless we opt to be a cardio bunny.

12) What is one thing for optimal hypertrophy that would be the biggest bang for the buck, but most people are not doing?

Mike Robertson—

I discussed this at length above, so I won’t drone on about this.  I feel if more people would improve their alignment, mobility and stability, they’d be putting themselves in a better position to grow, regardless of what their programming looked like.  Essentially, any program would be “better” because they are using the appropriate muscles for the task at hand.

Brett Jones

Squat – Heavy! Eat a lot.

Fact #1:

When you can squat 405 (or more) for 5 sets of 5 reps you will not be crying about being a “hard gainer”.  Nothing is as effective as squats for gaining mass – period.

People spend too much time worrying over the perfect program and supplement protocol and not enough time under the bar.

Fact #2:

In general terms there are two known methods for gaining size – powerlifting and bodybuilding.  There are no mysteries or secret programs – period.

The fact is that gaining mass is simple – but not easy!

Wise words by both and very similar.  Looks like my bananas and DB flys programmed is doomed before it even starts.

Frankie Faires—

OK, now it is time to talk about testing – testing – testing.

OK, I will be the “woo-woo” guy.

If something (food, movement) is good for you, doesn’t it make sense that it would make your body stronger and more flexible?

It does!  One way to instantly measure movement efficacy it is to test your ROM.

For lower body movements, test arm flexion (reach directly upwards and backwards)  For upper body movements, test using a soft locked knee toe touch.

If after performing the movement, your ROM did not increase, that movement is not good for you and probably will slow down hypertrophic gains.

Whooo.   Hold on there Mr Woo Woo with your can of worms.   Why would I test a lower body motion after upper body work?  Do I have to do this after every set?  Why would this slow down hypertrophic gains if my range of motion decreases?  Last time I checked most powerlifters are trying to decrease their range of motion and they are some big dudes.    What gives?

What we are testing isn’t exactly ROM.  ROM is the method but it isn’t the measure.  We are measuring how overall relaxed you are (which is a function of how relaxed your nervous system will be).  Doing KB swings will directly increase your hamstring flexibility.   For it to be a good test, you need to test another place that wasn’t targeted in the exercise.

Losing ROM is ultimately bad for you.  It may not be bad right away but it will be.  If you make health your first priority, I predict fewer plateaus and an incredibly low chance of injury…which leaves you more time to be bigger.

My notes, I have been testing my ROM after exercises for quite some time now and it works VERY well when done precisely.

Geoff Neupert—

There isn’t “one” thing–there’s “two:” Performing the “hard” exercises like squats and deadlifts and eating. I went from 165lbs to 252lbs in 4 years in college following this exact “blueprint.”

Hard to argue with those results!

So there you have it folks.  We even made it through with no bloodshed other than a few attempt to bench press Frankie who then offered to karate chop them if they tried and peace was restored.

Now it is your turn to put this knowledge into practice.  Knowledge is not key, APPLIED knowledge is key go out and start applying!

Special thanks to all 4 for their time on this.  Much much appreciate!

Any questions on any of this, feel free to drop me a line atmichaelTnelson@yahoo.com

Check out my website athttp://www.ExtremeHumanPerformance.com

Rock on

Mike T Nelson

PhD Candidate U of MN

Z-Health  Master Trainer

CSCS, RKC

This entry was posted in Bigger Muscles (Hypertrophy) and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *